Why breeding is a BIG no-no for Guinea Pigs

[Jace Lau]

Hi guys,

I think this thread is long overdue. I have been procrastinating abt this for the past 1 yr, since i found out abt the dangers of breeding guinea pigs.

Let me first start by telling u my own story. I have (in my own opinion :p) a rather unique coloured guinea pig named Scamper. When i first got him, my first thought was "wah so unique colour, why dun i breed him? can make $$$ too!!!" Afterall it was not common to see grey (homogenous, not agouti) pigs in the pet shops. I then tried looking for a suitable mate for him. Let me tell u i spent 10 mths visiting petshops every wkend or at least twice a mth to look for the idea pig. However aft the very first piggy gathering, Scamper fell sick. He caught URI and i think the forum then wasn't very active and i didn't know what was happening to him. I brought him to see the vet yet he did not improve. Instead he started drooling. The vet immediately schedule to check his teeth, which means she had to knock him out. By then Scamp wasn't eating much (i haven't heard of Critical care either) and he was pretty weak. I bawled my eyes out to anyone and everyone who would spare a min listening to Scamp's story. I realised that my special pig could die on the table. That spurred me to join the overseas forum, Guinea Lynx.

it was there when i told the members there that i wanted to breed scamp. And boy, what a big shelling i got from them. and I really mean "BIG", nothing u would see in this forum i promise u. i was scolded left right and centre (to borrow a quote from Prodigy) cos i was ignorant abt the dangers of breeding. They made me read all the materials on breeding and after that i was a convert. Despite being humiliated on an international forum, i stuck on there and learnt from them. cos my pigs were more impt than my pride. I learnt abt mites, vit c, veggies, hay, diff pellet brands, how to groom, how to handle, diff types of medication, homeotherapy and much much more in that forum. Much more than i could have done so locally. Mind u, i m not saying that u guys are ignorant or what, but seriously, the guinea pig scene here has a lot to catch up with.

Ok enough abt my personal story. let me give u the cold hard facts of guinea pig breeding.

1) 20-25% of sows die during pregnacy, labour or just after delivering the pups. this means one in 4 or 5 pregnacies results in death of the mother. if the babies have been delivered, what are u going to do abt them without their mother? The sows can suffer from a prolapsed uterus, meaning a collasped womb. its a life threatening situation that the vet would have to charge u an enormous amt of $$ for.

2) As quoted from Guinea Lynx, 'Breeding after 8 months of age can be fatal for a guinea pig who has not had a previous litter due to dystocia. The symphysis (a joint of tough fibrous cartilage which firmly joins the 2 pubic bones) can stiffen upon reaching adulthood and she may not be able to deliver her pups unaided. Sows with dystocia usually need a caesarian section. The survival rate is very poor.' If u guys have a female pig older than 8 mths and still insist on breeding them, then u are asking for trouble., Sad to say pigs are not a priority in the vet's dictionary here and hence they are reluctant to hold the pig for caesarian.

3) the sow might be straining to push the baby out. Now i dunno how many of u out here are mothers, but try imagining that u are in a 24 hrs labour with no doc and no anaethesia. how would u feel? i personally know of a sow which died cos she couldn't push the babies out. She died with her legs spayed open. Graphic enough for u?

4) the next logical qn is why pigs cannot breed? cos unlike other rodents (e.g. hammies) pups are borned FULLY FURRED, eyes opened and ready to run and eat. That means they need to be fairly matured in their mum's womb before delivery. That's why piggy pregnacies are dangerous!

5) what are u going to do abt those pups whose mother died during labour or just aft it? well its YOUR responsibility to feed them once every 2 hrs. YES u read correctly, its ONCE every 2 hrs with unsweeten soya milk. Including in the middle of the night and bringing the babies with u to work or to sch. Can u take it? some of u will say get my mum/ maid to do it. Hey! Wake up! u bred the pig, so u jolly well do the job. A fren rescued 2 babies from a local well known pet shop aft their mum died and crushed one of their sibling to death. She got up at nite to do her feed and it wasn't easy with a full time job. Happy to say, those 2 pigs are now big and healthy.

6) Mother survived, babies survived = Jace talking rot. Yes many of u had pregnant cavies delivering their babies safely once, twice or even thrice. well let me tell u, each gestation is independent of the previous one i.e. ur sow still has 25% chance of dying even if she might have delivered 3 healthy litters previously.

7) What are u going to do abt the extra mouths u have to feed? I read that many of u are still schooling or in NS hence have limited income. More than once, i read that u guys feel that pellets, vet trips, hay, litter are very ex and u have to think carefully abt spending on urself. Well having one or 2 more pigs do not increase the cost proportionally but nonetheless the increase is there. Can u cope with extra cages, more litter, and more food? How abt space? I see many of u dun have enough space at home or the cages are too small for 1 pig. I m guilty of it myself cos the house i m staying in is not mine. with extra babies, can u handle all these?

8) some of u will say "sell the babies lah! can make $$$ mah". well, as much as i admire ur entrepreneurship, the horror stories of irresponsible adopters are always present. are u sure ur babies get a gd home? if u can be sure, then why have babies in the first place when what happens to them is pure misery? u call urself a cavy lover? there are piggies being dumped at SPCA. There are pigs living in miserable conditions in petshops. There are MORE than enough pigs for my liking in S'pore, if u ask me.I wish i have the money to save or rescue every single pig i see, but i dun.

9) do u know some pigs cannot be bred? cos they carry a lethal gene, resulting in misformed features and constanf pain to them? how can u, a self proclaimed pig lover, be willing to bring such pain to an animal? that goes for inbreeding too. Mums cannot breed with sons, brothers cannot bred with sisters, dads cannot breed with daughters. u run the risk of inbreeding, deformities and mutations.

Let me end by taking another quote from Guinea Lynx (http://www.guinealynx.com/breeding.html) "Because guinea pigs rely on us completely for their care and housing, we can control their reproductive lives and make a conscious choice to be a responsible pet owner. For the health and well-being of your or your child's beloved pet, do not breed. "

Bottomline is, if u are a Cavy Lover as u so claimed, then DO NOT breed ur pigs. I sincerely hope that all the ppl who read this thread will change their minds and help me to spread the messge to all newcomers or breeders that want to breed their pigs. I m only one person, can only do so much. But with ur help, i m sure many pigs will live to their ripe full age, and will be thanking u for it.

[prodigy]

wahhh.... very detailed.... it makes me sit down and think..... juz hope it works the same to those who r going to breed....

[Dionne]

Thank you Jace. Hope this serves as a reminder to all piggy owners.

[Pitoto]

Whoa Jace!!!! interesting and enlightening. Cool.

anyway.... just curious, for those that have a few pigs and are of diff gender, you house them in seperate cages har.

oh... 1 more thing.... where do our local petshops get their stocks of pigs?

please forgie me of my ignorant.

[prodigy]

they either get it frm home breeders whom stays in holland v. or import.... :D:D:D
usually imported pigs very exp... so when u see pigs sold for $100+++ its usually homebreeders bred locally.... coz imported pigs usually $200+++ to $300 plus

[Mammaliaphillic]

Thank you Jace for the really detailed information on GP-breeding...I fully agree with Jace...This not only applies to GPs per se but other animals as well....I really dislike and discourage the idea of breeding animals as a source of income unless u are a full-time breeder or hobbyist who have good intentions for the particular species/breed...

However, I would like to mention that if one has the detailed and proper knowledge to do breeding, it should be fine as not everyone breeds animals for sale although is discouraged for amateur breeders...Some people breed pets for self satisfaction, some would want some addition to their current collection and for some, in both aspects. It's also for the continuation of the species to some extent...And Of course I would suggest that the person who has the intention to breed to do a detailed read up first and understand the factors and risks...and do not overdo it as well..

I think the cost and maintenance wise for extra piggies that the person bred should be part of his/her consideration before breeding...He/She should be ready in all aspects to prepare for new borns...I suppose there's a risk in everything we do but sometimes it's worthwhile and inevitable to take some risks, even in our daily life...Last but not the least, the person who breeds animals should be responsible in any way.

Well, I know Jace meant well also and has placed effort for highlighting the consequences of breeding GPs...this is to ensure that ignorant people will realize that they are being so naive thinking that breeding is merely a simple process and do not require much knowledge. This is because they themselves do not understand the consequences and of course, the pain of the process. :)

[kimchi]

Wow!!

Thank You for sharing. :applause:

[popcheek]

thank you Jace for being very open & honest
everyone was a newbie in the beginning..
ignorant abt many things (that includes me too)

however, as we meet & discuss,
we found out many things, the do's and the dont's
some prefer to listen,
some prefer to act smart & believe in themselves/ignore
some basically just bo chup
well, nothing can be done coz it is your own piggy, your own way of taking care...

however i believe everyone here are concerned with the piggy that we all fell in love with, some choose to scrimp & save just to provide the best for the pigpig. So when one fell sick/ died all will feel the pinch too. And also if one's piggy have trouble, everyone will express their opinion on how to solve it.

This is wad a forum are for, thanks ppl for always listening to my woes(..and crapz eheheh) & sharing your unique experiences too.

[Dionne]

I totally agree with popcheek. I felt the warmth and genuine concern from the members here all the way from the point when Moochie started falling sick, until the very end when he passed on.

And it's true that no matter what kinda pet u have at home, it's best that u open your eyes and ears to observe and listen to what the more experienced owners have to say, instead of insisting on doing things your own way.

I really hope people out there would at least TRY to put their pets' well-being before materialistic desires.

[boredphuck]

i think its good that pig owners know the dangers of breeding. so even if someone still insists on doing it, at least he has been told of the possible consequences of breeding and we can only hope that he is making an informed decision.

imo, i think there is no point scolding and putting down a person's decision to breed his pigs. he has the right to breed his pigs even it may not be in the best interest for him to do so. like it or not, the pig is his. we can't be running the forum like the govt. even the govt doesn't control the ppl from making babies.

[popcheek]

the govt wants you to make babies
bonus bonus bonus...but ppl still no babies yet
so, boredphuck, we all depend on u liaoz:D
pls make babies tt will even put Man U team to shame :p

[boredphuck]

the govt can encourage by giving bonus but they can nvr pass legislation on child birth right?

anyway, no plans to have kids yet lah. wait for a chance to see yours first. haha.

[kingzz]

Wahh....very informative and useful.

But very sad to say that i know of someone who breeds gps at the home!- say this is his hobby. there are about 20+ piggies of all breeds colours, long fur, short fur, curly fur, etc. And this is not including other animals/pets that he has at home, like bunnies, birds, dogs, fishes and also, mind u, its ducks! wah rao...like a mini zoo.

i dont understand how come it is his hobby to breed gps. dun tell me it is because he wan to see the mix and match - u know- like what kind/what breed/ what colour combined with another breed/colour = what end result?

i dun think he is selling for profit too - he cannot be making money cos he sells his gp at v v cheap. heard abt $10+- only. so i still dunno why he does that... :no:

[krisietong]

Another lesson learnt from Jace is that the guinea pigs which we are having, do not come easy. The mother guinea pigs had gone through tiring and risky labour to give us what we are having in our cage now. We need to cherish them like they're our kids :)

[micheline]

Actually not onli for Guinea Pigs. Breeding is not good for dogs, cats, hamsters & rabbits.

To share my storys. I use to breed my guinea pigs But stopped dng that for more than 8mths. The reasons for dng tht

1) seem alot of pups die!!! imagine morning u wake ur sow gave u SURPRISE & u saw few pups running in the cage(very happy rite) then other part of the cage saw dead pups or bloody placenta.

2) my sow are too stress after giving birth. ITs chew it own FURS until had serious BALD PATCHES! :mad:

3) other sow didnt feed her pups milks!! i had to handfeed it every 2hrs in the end the pups still die. IM SO SAD THT PERIOD!!! imagine by all mean u are trying to save all the pups but all still gone :(

4) my sows passed away due to giving birth :(


Nw my female stay with female, Male stay with Male......no nitemare for me anymore..........

[micheline]

seriously does those person tht breed their gps had ever tot of seperating their gps after the sow had given birth for more than twice within 3-4mth?

[bearies]

I bought my pigs and it came pregnant... can only pray all goes well for the mum and babies when the time come... anyway will be keeping all myself if it all end well... will need some pro to sex them for me so i can separate them...

[prodigy]

bearies when babies are born give me a ring.... i run over to take a look.... heeheex

[Mintsweet]

[QUOTE=Jace Lau]Hi guys,

I think this thread is long overdue. I have been procrastinating abt this for the past 1 yr, since i found out abt the dangers of breeding guinea pigs.

Let me first start by telling u my own story. I have (in my own opinion :p) a rather unique coloured guinea pig named Scamper. When i first got him, my first thought was "wah so unique colour, why dun i breed him? can make $$$ too!!!" Afterall it was not common to see grey (homogenous, not agouti) pigs in the pet shops. I then tried looking for a suitable mate for him. Let me tell u i spent 10 mths visiting petshops every wkend or at least twice a mth to look for the idea pig. However aft the very first piggy gathering, Scamper fell sick. He caught URI and i think the forum then wasn't very active and i didn't know what was happening to him. I brought him to see the vet yet he did not improve. Instead he started drooling. The vet immediately schedule to check his teeth, which means she had to knock him out. By then Scamp wasn't eating much (i haven't heard of Critical care either) and he was pretty weak. I bawled my eyes out to anyone and everyone who would spare a min listening to Scamp's story. I realised that my special pig could die on the table. That spurred me to join the overseas forum, Guinea Lynx.

it was there when i told the members there that i wanted to breed scamp. And boy, what a big shelling i got from them. and I really mean "BIG", nothing u would see in this forum i promise u. i was scolded left right and centre (to borrow a quote from Prodigy) cos i was ignorant abt the dangers of breeding. They made me read all the materials on breeding and after that i was a convert. Despite being humiliated on an international forum, i stuck on there and learnt from them. cos my pigs were more impt than my pride. I learnt abt mites, vit c, veggies, hay, diff pellet brands, how to groom, how to handle, diff types of medication, homeotherapy and much much more in that forum. Much more than i could have done so locally. Mind u, i m not saying that u guys are ignorant or what, but seriously, the guinea pig scene here has a lot to catch up with.

>I dunno why am i replying to this thread but i feel that i should Anyway first in first i would like to say how sorry i am for ur pig and hope that ur scamper is alright and for the scare that u went thru without first going through information and risk about breeding. One thing i would like to state here is that i'm trying to breed my guinea pig yes u read it correctly (flame me if u wan but i am not seconding my decision and i wun hide from the fact like a coward and say i'm not breeding my pig etc). i find that most of the post u made are not for the breeding of pigs due to alot of circumstances and possibility of pigs death , i read them and i know the risk. Only thing i dun understand is why are u trying to tell everyone to stop breeding instead of advicing ? maybe i nv read properly or i'm too sleepyeyed to see. Everyone is entitle to their own opinion and wadever risk they wanna take.But i dun take it kindly when u wanna 'force feed' everyone to take ur opinions just becos you have had a bad experience with ur pig. I understand if u care for ur pig and proclaimed cavy lovers that breeding will pose alot of dangers to pig but if pigs dun breed then where do we actually get our pigs from ? Drop down from the sky ?


Ok enough abt my personal story. let me give u the cold hard facts of guinea pig breeding.

1) 20-25% of sows die during pregnacy, labour or just after delivering the pups. this means one in 4 or 5 pregnacies results in death of the mother. if the babies have been delivered, what are u going to do abt them without their mother? The sows can suffer from a prolapsed uterus, meaning a collasped womb. its a life threatening situation that the vet would have to charge u an enormous amt of $$ for.

>i feel that if u consider breeding and knowing the risk for ur baby girl to die while giving birth yet u still go ahead with it then its really ur own decision.If u do not have the funds and time to do something like this then dun do it Yes i understand that. But i would like to put it thru that i know all this risk and i'm willing to spend the enormous amt of $$ if any complications arises , enuff said

2) As quoted from Guinea Lynx, 'Breeding after 8 months of age can be fatal for a guinea pig who has not had a previous litter due to dystocia. The symphysis (a joint of tough fibrous cartilage which firmly joins the 2 pubic bones) can stiffen upon reaching adulthood and she may not be able to deliver her pups unaided. Sows with dystocia usually need a caesarian section. The survival rate is very poor.' If u guys have a female pig older than 8 mths and still insist on breeding them, then u are asking for trouble., Sad to say pigs are not a priority in the vet's dictionary here and hence they are reluctant to hold the pig for caesarian.

>guinea pigs after 8 months is not recoomanded for breeding if the person reads this and still goes ahead for his/her pig to breed i tink he/she outta be shot for not reading up. Here i totally agree with u as to the person is asking for trouble. Whether the vet here is reluctant to hold the pig for caesarian, my guess is cos the vet here are not really exposed to the guinea pig society. Once more ppl request for holding of caesarian for pig my guess is singapore vet will actually do it for the sake of $$$

3) the sow might be straining to push the baby out. Now i dunno how many of u out here are mothers, but try imagining that u are in a 24 hrs labour with no doc and no anaethesia. how would u feel? i personally know of a sow which died cos she couldn't push the babies out. She died with her legs spayed open. Graphic enough for u?

>This point is definitely graphic enough for me so the next time if u have a baby girl and she's preg yet the doctor diagnose her with weak womb and stuff and might not be able to survive the birth of the child, WOULD u force ur child to give up her baby ? If u say u would i have nothing more to say.
We all know having babies is difficult but the most important thing is that u care and u have to be there for ur pig and know the risk and illnesses that will come together with the pregnancy of the pig. does responsible adults make any sense to u all ?

4) the next logical qn is why pigs cannot breed? cos unlike other rodents (e.g. hammies) pups are borned FULLY FURRED, eyes opened and ready to run and eat. That means they need to be fairly matured in their mum's womb before delivery. That's why piggy pregnacies are dangerous!

>Humans also give birth to babies ready to bawl and breath and drink milk , human pregnancies are dangerous too. So am i good to say that humans better dun breed too ?

5) what are u going to do abt those pups whose mother died during labour or just aft it? well its YOUR responsibility to feed them once every 2 hrs. YES u read correctly, its ONCE every 2 hrs with unsweeten soya milk. Including in the middle of the night and bringing the babies with u to work or to sch. Can u take it? some of u will say get my mum/ maid to do it. Hey! Wake up! u bred the pig, so u jolly well do the job. A fren rescued 2 babies from a local well known pet shop aft their mum died and crushed one of their sibling to death. She got up at nite to do her feed and it wasn't easy with a full time job. Happy to say, those 2 pigs are now big and healthy.

>I'm happy that ur friend has such a big heart and willing to take care of the poor little babies and did such good job with them. Wad actually makes u think that ALL the ppl who might wanna breed will say my mum/maid can do it ? personally my mum hates pet she dun even know i have a pig (i kept mine in my room off limit to everyone in my house so no one knows). Maid ? my house no maid my mum believes in everything u do urself wad for get a maid? . I dunno why but u believe that everyone who is trying to breed here are all misinformed youngsters and hence u need to tell everyone NOT TO breed. which is kinda forcing ur opinion imho.

6) Mother survived, babies survived = Jace talking rot. Yes many of u had pregnant cavies delivering their babies safely once, twice or even thrice. well let me tell u, each gestation is independent of the previous one i.e. ur sow still has 25% chance of dying even if she might have delivered 3 healthy litters previously.

>thanks for the information.Even tho i nv tot of u as toking rot. I just feel that u been putting ur idea across too forcefully

[Mintsweet]

[Continued]

7) What are u going to do abt the extra mouths u have to feed? I read that many of u are still schooling or in NS hence have limited income. More than once, i read that u guys feel that pellets, vet trips, hay, litter are very ex and u have to think carefully abt spending on urself. Well having one or 2 more pigs do not increase the cost proportionally but nonetheless the increase is there. Can u cope with extra cages, more litter, and more food? How abt space? I see many of u dun have enough space at home or the cages are too small for 1 pig. I m guilty of it myself cos the house i m staying in is not mine. with extra babies, can u handle all these?

>If i say i can handle all the amt of cost which i might or maybe going to spend on all the pigs i might/may have, would this become a non valid reason ?

8) some of u will say "sell the babies lah! can make $$$ mah". well, as much as i admire ur entrepreneurship, the horror stories of irresponsible adopters are always present. are u sure ur babies get a gd home? if u can be sure, then why have babies in the first place when what happens to them is pure misery? u call urself a cavy lover? there are piggies being dumped at SPCA. There are pigs living in miserable conditions in petshops. There are MORE than enough pigs for my liking in S'pore, if u ask me.I wish i have the money to save or rescue every single pig i see, but i dun.

>If the breeder is keeping all the babies then the fact of horror adoption wun exist yes i applaude ur point of trying to get the $$ face breeder to be more responsible but i hope u do understand that this fact doesn't apply to everyone

9) do u know some pigs cannot be bred? cos they carry a lethal gene, resulting in misformed features and constanf pain to them? how can u, a self proclaimed pig lover, be willing to bring such pain to an animal? that goes for inbreeding too. Mums cannot breed with sons, brothers cannot bred with sisters, dads cannot breed with daughters. u run the risk of inbreeding, deformities and mutations.

>Responsible breeders will know better then to inbreed their pigs its liken to like a human daughter xxx with dad and mum with son . its incest to me and i feel this fact is seriously applied to those idiotic moronic breeders.

Let me end by taking another quote from Guinea Lynx (http://www.guinealynx.com/breeding.html) "Because guinea pigs rely on us completely for their care and housing, we can control their reproductive lives and make a conscious choice to be a responsible pet owner. For the health and well-being of your or your child's beloved pet, do not breed. "

>Will u for the health and well being of ur child , get him/her sterilised ? I dun mean ur pigs i mean ur real life human child. WOuld u ? i guess not cos human child will voice their own rights and etc .So would u as a mother or father kill ur own child's opportunity to have a grandchild for u ? (Sorry if its confusing but i look upon my pig as my child and i let nature take its course.)

Bottomline is, if u are a Cavy Lover as u so claimed, then DO NOT breed ur pigs. I sincerely hope that all the ppl who read this thread will change their minds and help me to spread the messge to all newcomers or breeders that want to breed their pigs. I m only one person, can only do so much. But with ur help, i m sure many pigs will live to their ripe full age, and will be thanking u for it.[/QUOTE]

>If being a cavy lover means u dun breed ur pigs then i tink alot of cavy lovers cum breeders outta be shot dead in their brains for breeding their beloved pigs . So to say i dun agree with the fact that being a cavy lover u have to stop ur pig from breeding and wad if u got a pregnant pig from a pet shop . are u gonna take it for abortion ? i doubt so cos most of the ppl will be tempted with the images of little piglets trampling ard the cages and thus they will just look up information on breeding online and i find that in this forum , the breeding topic is a deadend when oppose to some other 'international' forums i frequent. Not to dampen everyone or encourage everyone to breed but i feel that this shouldn't be a post to ask everyone to breed but a post to advice ppl on the perils on breeding and be responsible about it. My 2cents worth. (I know i will prolly be flamed after posting this post but i just can't bottle up my feelings and nod in response to SOME of the facts stated , neither do i wanna be two face and later on secretly breed , i'm not that kinda person.)

[boredphuck]

mintsweet: kudos to u for speaking up. i'm behind u and ur reasons for breeding 100%!

[Jace Lau]

U know Mintsweet, all i wanted to say was the danger of breeding, nowhere in my post did i say anything abt EVERYONE CANNOT BREED THEIR PIGS. Have i? may be u should really read carefully. Late nites hur?

To rebut point by point to ur hard to read letterings, here they are.

1) Scamp was nv bred so dunno what u are talking abt. I was merely sharing went i realised how fragile my pet's life could be.

2) did i say u guys must follow Jace's words to the T? when did i say u must follow me or i hand twisted u into following to quote u (force feed)? U can breed all u like, as much as i can say not to breed. so what's the point are u driving at? duh...

3) U know the risk then u still take it, then i am equally entitled to say 'hey u are so WILLINGLY to let 25% of ur pigs die". fair right? Double duh...

4) if i have a gal, and the doc say that says her life is in danger, then i will ask the gal to think for herself cos she has the capability to THINK, unlike our pigs. Ur analogy totally doesn't work. If she chooses the risk, then its her decision. Its the HUMAN's decision to let her pets breed. too hard to fathom for u?

5) U mean u dunno human pregnacies are dangerous? that shows how ignorant u are! u dun get why ppl say pregnant women can't take meds, can't eat certain stuff, need certain vits and minerals, can't do certain stuff??? cos they all contribute to fetous death. The reason u think human pregnacy is save is bcos of the ADVANCE medical skills here. Kaoz...

6) Responsible adults doesn't figure anywhere in my post.. where did they pop in? in my opinion responsible adults won't breed. cos they are responsible enough to know the risk ain't worth it? whose definition counts?

7) Oh Mintsweet, guess u are too much a greenhorn to get qns like, "my mother pig died, what to do with my babies?" tell them to hand feed 2 hrly, they ans "oh i cannot bring the babies to work/ sch." or "oh no, like that means my mum/ maid got to help liao." some of these are adults.. again it shows that ur exposure to diff possible probs is very limited.

8) So what if i m telling ppl not to breed? I can only tell not physically go there to castrate all the male piggies right? if ppl like u want to do it, then wat can i do? if u wanna follow my opinion, its ur brain telling u to do so, nothing to do with me. u mean what i wanna say must ask ur opinion? u are my mother?

9) if u can handle all ur new pigs then gd. none of my business. But then again, ppl selling their babies are too much a common place here.. referring to those not rich ppl like u mah...

10) dun understand what u are talking abt in my point 8. i m referring to disgusting breeders that keep their pigs in filthy conditions. if u dun think u are in the same category then gd! i nv said u were.

11) again u said that i wanna sterilise my children? Ha! i think my kids have their own mind, unlike my pigs. u treat ur pigs like ur kids? that's ur opinion. i m very surprised ur pigs have enough brains to decide whether to have babies... u must have very smart pigs eh? i dun sterilise my pigs btw, just separate them. Anybody else see that this analogy doesn't work?

12) i am talking abt breeding pigs not accident cases from the petshops. in fact there was a couple of times ppl got preggie pigs from petshops, i try my best to help them cos its not their fault. obviously u dun bother finding up before u jump the gun.

13) if u think overseas forums are much better for breeding info, then why dun u go there? *lost* its like cannot eat chewing gum in S'pore and u cry, but u can definately go across the causeway to chew all u want. DUH!

14) all the same i m glad u told all of us that u are gg to breed. i do admire ur honestly and bravery. Its ur choice. I have done my part to inform the rest on the dangers of breeding. if u guys wanna persist, be my guest. May be it takes the heartbreaking scenes of suffering from ur sows or dead piggies to change ur mind. may be u need to see the suffering first.. who knows? may be u will be like some of the owners here (like Mich) who changed her mind.. or may be not. It will be on ur conscience when ur pigs die *touch wood*. not mine.

[ahwen]

Anyway everyone has a story to learn from. Yes indeed pets were like humans. When becoming a mother it doesnt mean must know how to breast feed, so it applies to GPs... I know dogs do not know how to breastfeed their child after giving birth because it applies to my auntie's dog long time ago. She had to wake up every two hours to hand feed them milk and the pups which was just born, they had only the size of a Hammie! So cute! In the end my auntie brought the two pups up but sadly the sister died earlier cos she had skin problems.

My cousin's BF bought her a pair of GPs (male and female) and the female was already pregnant. And recently, it gave birth to two pups but they were still living together as mentioned from them! I mean I couldn't control their thinking cos they (my cousin and her dad) were my elders so they don't take in what I said. And they feel that living together is like a Happy Family to them, instead of risk of pregnancy for cavies is taken into thought. My cousin's dad suspects that the female was pregnant again cos she is heavier than the male but I don't know how to respond as well. Initially my cousin wanted her female GP to breed with J J like mentioned, just wanted to see the "effect". Then I told her "Don't want lah, later your sow will die when giving too much birth" but she answered me "Its my sow die not your J J die mah" I was like ... Speechless... Personally I also prefer J J to be virgin, don't mix with girls too much, if not accident case, I need him to be responsible. Haha... Afterall, I just hoped that the idea of breeding will gradually decrease in everyone's mind, be GPs, Hammies, Dogs, etc.

[Jace Lau]

To those who support me, thanks. To those, after reading my thread and decided that i m taking nonsense, then gd luck.

This thread was started with the intention of letting ppl know the risk of breeding and tell them the risk ain't worth it. If u guys decided that the calculated risk is worth it, then go ahead. I cannot stop u. i can only make noises here to let ppl know. If u guys wanna breed, may be u can come out with one thread that says "why breeding is ok for pigs".

[prodigy]

mintsweet.... i wanna correct u on certain points....

1)Firstoff, i dun tink Jace is trying to "brainwash" us not to breed. she nvr did.All she did was sharing her experience wif us and showing us the cold hard facts(as u said) frm wart she learnt frm the flammings frm pple far far more experienced than she and rest of us.

2) You compared pigs with humans. HA_HA.... for humans, be it she intends to or an accident to get pregnant, she has a choice. She even has a choice to get pregnant or abort the foetus. But have anybody asked ur pig??? u want to get pregnant????she has no choice u know.... its like throwing ur daughter in a cell and"buy" her a " husband" and leave them there..... is it fair to your pigs???

3) Not to forget there are alot of newbies and ignorant pple who juz got pigs. They get it frm petshops and u knoe i knoe how much can shop keepers can be trusted.... they r not sure of the certainties of whether the pig is related or not and they breed.... wart happens to the piglets? wart if they comes out defect? c'mon lets be honest wif ourselves... hu want to keep defected pigs? u can't change this but u can prevent it.

3)Mintsweet... i finally can see how much of a pig lover u r now... the risk of losing ur sow is 25%... do u really wanna sacrifice that??? back to point number 2... ur sow is living off happily how u know if she willingly risk her live to give birth?????

4) Lastly.. all i want to say here is no offense.... u knoe how responsible can pple hu buys pets 1st then read up be! they breed than when the piglet comes out stillborn...wart they do??? freak out??? by te time is too late!!! lives are endangered or even lost!!!!!!!!how can u allow that?????

5) Lastly, i would like to highlight again that you SHOULD NOT breed ur pigs when u only want like another pig in ur family,for sales and God knoes wart reason.
I would also like to remind you that it is illegal to breed commercially without a license. I will not hesitate to report another case to the AVA.

[Pitoto]

Please correst me if i am wrong.....generally i feel it is ....not that cannot breed lah, if cannot breed...then some years down the road, pigs extinct liao... so leave the breeding to the experts and those who are "given the gift" to breed.

for us, no such gift ones, will just bring pain and suffering to the pigs....

just my 2cents point of view.

[boredphuck]

so who shld be allowed to breed? experts? yes. but how does a person gain experience? :)

i think with anything we do, there is risk involved. be it breeding pigs or something u do in ur daily life. most importantly, the person have to weigh the consequences of his actions. if you think u can be responsible for it, then go ahead.

no one can tell u how to lead your life right? as long as what you do does not harm another person intentionally, i think u have done no wrong.

[Pitoto]

good point,... but for those no/less experience, and still wanna breed, nobody can stop them, but at least must have experienced expert's guildance lor.

Just like if you join a new company, no experience rite, then there will be someone senior to guide you, and you learn.... then many years later, you will be guidnig others....

[Jace Lau]

Hrmmm u do post a gd qn Boredphuck. I dun think there is a list as to who can breed. Some of the experts i know (actually ALL of them) are against breeding. :) so i guess there is no right or wrong answer.

My qn is "is it absolutely necessary to gain such 'breeding' experience?" I dun think so. that's all. but i m sure there will be ppl out there who think that its necessary. so there. I understand there will be ppl always who won't have the same view as i do, but nonetheless i own it to the pigs to let owners know the risks.

Right now i doubt pigs will ever go extinct, just like dogs. There will be always someone out there breeding them, whether i like it or not. that's something i gotta accept then.

[boredphuck]

i think its hard for a person to balance between love for his pet and breeding him. breeding animals requires sacrifice on the animal and the owner. no breeding is fail safe. just look at breeding of hamsters. i think its alot more dangerous than pigs.

i dun expect pet lovers like us to understand why ppl breed animals. i think its a passion as well as a hobby. although some might say its not fair to put the lives of pigs at stake because of your selfish hobby, but there is always the other side of the argument that you are helping them procreate and have their labor of love.

no one here is a pig (thank goodness) so we will nvr know what goes their little head. but we have to accept the fact that they are animals and have no ability to think rationally. if u put 2 pigs together, they will mate. they mate not because of feelings but their innate desire to multiply. in the wild, the chances of the sow and the pups dying will be even higher. and if the sow suffered during labor, they will not understand why and they will definitely mate again given the chance.

when we have pigs, we would definitely not want to see our pigs in pain. so we would do wadever we can. but suffering and death are things in life that we have to accept. letting your pigs mate may seem cruel knowing the complications that may develop but its how nature works.

personally, i always think the end must justify the means. u can't make omelettes without breaking a few eggs.

[Jace Lau]

Hrmm well Boredphuck, i think the opposite though. if the pigs in the wild (no more liao btw.. they have all been domesticated. those wild ones are of a different species) can't think for themselves and thus do it as nature make them to, then its not within human control. But those pigs in our hands are, so why do u wanna subject them to the pain? Esp since u can control it. Yes i accept that my pigs will die one day in the long future, but i do not need to inflict them with any additional controllable anguish. Get what i m driving at?

Seriously, I will not sacrifice any pig or any other animal for that matter to satisfy my own curiosity.

Boredphuck, just a personal qn, why dun u have kids now? u dun have to answer it here. Its a personal qn. But i rem Popcheek asking u this in one of the threads and u said something like now isn't the time. U get to choose the time, yet ur pigs can't. Heck they can't even choose whether they wanna get preggie or not. This isn't a personal attack, just wondering if u ever think that ur pigs might nv want kids and the sows kena raped by the males just becos u left them together.

Conversely u might ask if my pigs wanna have kids and i dun allow them to have then how? well, my males definitely want babies, that's for sure. But the selfish (or whatever)me is unwilling to sacrifice my females. That's a choice i choose. just like u have chosen to support breeding. As i said before, i can only inform u all the dangers and hopefully persuade u not to breed. but if u choose to, we can argue to the cows come home and not see eye to eye.

Hopefully this will put an end to all the arguments. Let me emphasize that this thread was started to inform u guys whether u knew it before already or what, the dangers of breeding. So let's stop here or u guys can start another thread on 'why breeding is ok' instead. cos we are really off the topic liao.

[boredphuck]

just my parting msg. its good that u brought up the qns why i dun have kids. i understood that having kids is not something u do rashly or out of fun. there is a big responsibility tat comes with it.

owners are like the brain of the pigs. they can think n react when the pigs can't do for themselves. hence, the comparison between educating a teenager on sex and pig owners on breeding. both similar in the aspect tat unwanted unpregnancy and uncontrolled breeding can be dangerous.

i was a teenager once. i nvr went round making girls pregnant simply because i was aware of the risks and i made an informed decision. i was not told by my parents or teachers that it was a big nono.

but hey, kids nowadays are still doing it. what we as adults or as pet owners can tell them of the danger and continue to educate and remind them of the danger of it. putting down ppl who do it will just turn them away from the voice of reason.

just to let u know, im not pro nor anti breeding of pigs. i just believe that we shld have the freedom of doing what we like without the fear of being ostracised by our peers. i think if the owner even bothers to read up on breeding, i think he has taken a responsible step in the right direction.

lets just agree to disagree. there are things that ppl just cant agree on.

[Jace Lau]

Yups Boredphuck I agree to disagree! Frens still ya?

[boredphuck]

of cos. its just a difference in opinion on one issue.

[popcheek]

wah popcheek eyes is now filled with wordssss
just like matrix screen..u know those black screen with many many green words?
thats wad i see now hahahahaa...
(*_*)

everyone has their opinions, and everyone is voicing opinions
to breed or not to breed?
dun make it complicated lo...i think its:

those who wanna breed..nobody stopping u, do ur research thoroughly, make sure u are mentally & physically prepared & do not come in regretting the actions later/ blame ppl that 'you told me this is the right way' or such .. coz losing the loved GP just becoz wanna 'experiment'/ try try is quite foolish....no, downright stupid. if you think u are an expert & ready to breed, and successful, grats, but remember there are always risk.

those who breed by accidents...hope learn the lesson along the way & do not repeat the same mistake,and don't play God - create lives/destroy lives, Piggies should live to have fun, and not to suffer/die coz of some pregnancy tt u cant handle.

those who chose not to breed,i respect them coz can resist the temptations, and by not breeding....can spend more time playing & devising new ways/ideas to spend time with the piggies, and not worrying abt a thing, whether pregnancy will be safe, wad food must be given, etc.

then again, this is my opinion.... :)

[Mammaliaphillic]

I think everyone in this forum has their own opinions and concerns but these issues are very subjective...We cannot control the others like telling them what to do or what not to do...If they choose to be educated by those more experienced, they'll learn more...

As I browsed thru this forum, I think many feelings was uncovered, be it happiness, sadness, anger, etc...but it is still for the good of our pets rite? I am on neutral grounds for this matter...I do not encourage & also not discourage breeding of pets....it depends on the owner's level of maturity and responsibility...it's similar to family planning for us, humans... By commenting on the pain they'll be going thru during pregnancy/labour and it is unfair for them as they do not have a choice is invalid as this pain is essential to allow the mother to cherish/love her pups even further...pain is inevitable for all NATURAL births.

I thought that what made this forum turned sour is the type of language used...& how some sentences were phrased...maybe it was unintentional but sometimes inappropriate words are used here...some were very harsh, very threatening...words do not carry feelings (unlike when spoken) so different readers, when reading the same message,will have different interpretation of the message... Hence sometimes miscommunication will thus arise... :) I think we should revise our words or do some proof-reading before we submit it onto any forum..This will benefit a lot to the readers...I suppose the intent of this forum is good and Jace have made a good effort to educate those who are still "green" in this hobby...
:cool:

[Mintsweet]

Jace I hope u know this is a quote from ur post
u said "Bottomline is If you are a Cavy Lover as you so claimed , then DO NOT breed ur pigs." I very upset by this sentence becos by saying this u are condemning ppl who like me wanna breed my pig (so i can remember her by IF by chance she die of some illness that the greenhorn me do not know of, at least i still have her offsprings for remembrance sake) and hence i'm not a cavylover , pardon me maybe my english not exactly good but that's how i feel when i read that sentence.So there i have carefully read thru ur post correct me if i am wrong.
I join this forum becos i love cavies and yet by deciding to breed them i'm consider a NONE cavy lover so i dun really see ur point.Thus it really upset me.
BUT Everyone is entitled to their own ways of thought,
as stated by several in this thread.
Like i say i love my pig ,
since i know it will die 1 day (pls have some common sense), i will wish to at LEAST have her
offsprings for remembrance sake, if u say dun breed, u're just
telling me to keep getting NEW pigs everytime the lifespan of my bady piggy ends. how inhumane.
or u expect me to dry her corpse and frame it up? den dun rear guinea pigs ever again in my life?
there will be one day when my pigs go heaven and i see their babies i also will "hey this is the
offspring of my 1st pair of guinea pigs" rite?
Unless u are telling me u prefer to buy new pigs.
but as u say it entirely ur own opinion.
Just a clear point , i wun be selling any of the offsprings and no i will not freak out at stillborns or wadever. i'm too old to be freakout. unless the baby come out with a clown red nose or something nonetheless i'm keeping all the pigs so that shouldn't subject me to being on the bad side of law for breeding :judge: :rolleyes:
Pets will always die for some reason or other accidents.If you are scare of ur pet dying one way or another PLEASE dun rear a living thing. :)

I'm not the kinda girl who will hide to breed then put a false face in front of everyone else and say breeding is bad , yadda yadda.
Becos of this thread i've seen the true colors of a certain individual whom i shall not name. We had a conversation via msn chat (i have a log) which goes something like this :
[
me:"yar i'm prolly breeding my pig with my bf's cos i really love her and wan babies from her"
xxx:"oh good but hor dun let xxxx know that u wanna breed. LoL"
me:"erm .. okay"
]
Yet when this thread surface and i make a stand , the certain person just turn ard and claimed i wasn't much of a pig lover now just becos i made a stand where i honestly come forward with breeding.Finally suggesting that i might get reported for illegal breeding :scared: . I'm seriously very hurt and sadden :crybucket by this , i thought i had a friend whom even tho wun support my stand but at least wun nail me from behind but i guess wrong :(

Anyway i'm entirely a person who are too foward with my thinking and saying , so if i offended anyone , Let me know.Breeding dun make me any less of a Cavy Lover from anyone else ard here. :o :zzz:

[Jace Lau]

Mintsweet, i tot i made it clear that the argument is closed with the subsequent posts i made? still wanna harp on it? okok. *rolls sleeves up* :D

I made it clear that i m against breeding, so if u feel that my post is condemning u then i can't stop u. u see whatever u read online, u can choose ur reaction. I personally feel that breeding = irresponsibility BUT as i mentioned, i also understand that there are many views out there and not everyone will agree with me. Let me just repeat, i cannot stop every single owner from breeding. the initial post wasn't targetting u per se, heck i didn't even know u wanna breed. if u take it as a personal attack then i think u are over reacting liao, period. if u think u are a cavy lover then u are, so what's the deal? U choose ur own reactions, ur own interpretations. I have mine. so do i have to make sure everyone is agreeable to my posts, phrasings, words etc etc before i post? No right? my opinion u do not need to share, though the egoistic me would very much like uto. :)

Are u saying i have no common sense? THAT'S personal attack.

Er yes i m telling ppl NOT just u to try to save those poor pigs living in filthy petshops or up for adoption instead of breeding. but then again ITS my point of view. so yes i will buy/ adopt new pigs.

I dunno if u read correctly. My first post nv mentioned ur name nor pointed at u, why u keep thinking that i m accusing u??? guilty ppl speak the loudest isst? the sentence "that shouldn't subject me to being on the bad side of the law for breeding" is something u chose to interpret. i nv say "mintsweet was wrong to breed" or "mintsweet is not a cavy lover" so what are u talking abt? I said it once and i will say it again. This thread is to inform ppl why breeding pigs is a no-no, not one for personal attack.

I have also said i m glad that u are brave and honest enough to say that u wanna breed.

Abt the weblog thingy, u have more or less told everyone who the person was. Might as well say the name lah. I think if u wanna 'say' someone at least mention the person by name. try not to insinuate. If i have an issue with anyone here, i will either PM them OR write a post addressing to them. Its only fair for those that stumble in to know what's happening. Again its my personal point of view.

I still personally think that loving piggies does mean u need to breed them. so can we stop this now? i respect tat u have ur own view, but i do not need to agree with urs. Same goes for my views ok? okok enough liao.

[Mintsweet]

just to make it clear the common sense thingy was not pointed at u or wad so just to use a phrase u use on me "guilty ppl speak the loudest ???" :rolleyes:
I'm not trying to start another debate on anything i'm just trying to end this whole thread on "whether the chicken come first or egg" No one is right or wrong . I had nv say i nv respect ur opinion. It's that you couldn't take that i rebut u on ur opinion that's all. :hyper:
Like u say u have ur own opinion , u will PM or write a post pointing to them . i have my own ideas as to how to deal with these ppl.Without naming the person i just dunwan to find a cause for a flaming thread and leave it at that . as for PM-ing i dun find that i should pm that person just to let them know.Most of the ppl who stumble in and read are entitle to their own opinion , if the person is not wad i make them out to be. Only time will prove it wrong isn't it ?
seriously i just wanted to end everything ona closing note but there will always be someone with a comment . Thus i wont to be commenting on this thread anymore :) End of Story.
Anyway case close.

[Jace Lau]

huh? i couldn't take being rebutted? U wanna be kettle or the pot???!

u and whatever person is ur prob dun take it out on me. aiyoh wat does this have to do with me???

Ok seriously enough is enough. I will be the kettle u will be the pot ok? :D i m not asking to end this thread, more like to end this argument.

Let the thread continue man!

[prodigy]

Mintsweet.... i admit... i was da person who said so.... i used to tink that breeding have no big deal.... and if u die die muz breed and die hard breed then breed quietly coz Jace will yadah yadah here ALOT... to me.... i kinda find it irritating for Jace to repeat all and over again and still pple like u will still breed.... to me.... it was redundant... Jace say le machiam no say... by asking u not to let her knoe= not wasting all our time....

its true after reading this thread i abit dubious of wad jace said so i did some reading of my own....i was horrified.... Mintsweet... its good for u to admit... but isn't it a bit BU TING LAO REN YUAN!!!(sorri Jace... its a idiom not to say u r old :D) u r not e only person i cannot convince not to breed and i told that look... if u really want to.... stop telling everybody online....after this thread and my reading.... I started to try convince another newbie NOT TO BREED... he(she) also agreed to consider to sterilise his(her) male... i dunnoe how much he(she) will do it... but i really hope i did mange to convince him(her)......

I believe that everyone shld have His or HEr opinon she/he stand up for.... but when cold hard facts stand in front of u you CANNOT still stand by ur opinion anymore!!!!

btw... at least i dare to admit its the mistake on my part to even "encourage" u to breed even for once b4 i knoe any facts.... but do u dare to admit that breeding is harmful for ur babies???

[prodigy]

BTW.... i dun tink Jace's final statement is condemming anybody...if u reaaly love ur pig... u wouldn't let the greed of having a baby pig reproduced out of her... causing her to RISK HER LIFE for ur moment of greed would u??? ultimately.... u r NOT seeing the whole picture...fine... go ahead and breed... juz dun come crying and running if something happens to them! like u said... its ur choice!!! noone can stop u!!!

[jenniferwlp]

:shocked:Oh my god!! Oh my god!!
i separate the piggy dad & piggy mum just becoz i tink about the money am gng to spend in future for many piggies without realising "mummy piggy" safety!!!:shocked:
But thks to Jace:p U r the nxt one to "wake up" my mind,now my "mummy piggy" is put 2gather with her 3piggies whc is 2mths++ old already,shd i start to separate the gender male 2 male & female 2 female already???
I have let someone adopt her 1st pregnancy babies of 2 purely white ,red eyes piggies coz m really spending too much $ on them,& no choice but got to let them being adopted by somebdy else..my heart is still "bleeding" k...Now only left 2 adult piggies & their 2nd pregnancy babies of 3,...ENOUGH!!X3 so i separate them,might sound heartless but no choice lo coz giving away their babies really make my heart ache so much:crybucket
I remember many yrs again my rabbit gv birth to 8 babies,i had a hard time givin away those little bunny...i cry & cry,i witness their birth & also their been "given away"session..so i told myself if possible dun let my in future pets hv bb..but this time also no choice,"production"really fast than i expected.....
I bought another cage with tray today so tat that the "daddy piggy" legs wil not stain with beddin..Hope the "husband & wife piggy"don't blame me...:D On the other words also for the "mummy piggy" safety hor:applause:

:heartbeatHAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY :heartbeat

[Hobbes]

I assume the cage with tray has a grid base? If so, pls make sure the grid holes are not too big for the feet to go thru, or they may injure their feet. And wire mesh base is definitely a no-no.

[prodigy]

support c and c!!! :D:D haha jennifer glad u no longer breeds...

[Jace Lau]

Hi Jennifer,

Ya please separate the 2 males and 2 females. they are old enough to breed liao.

Agree with what Hobbes said, wire mesh is not gd for piggy's legs. even those with grids posed a danger to the toe nails.

[jenniferwlp]

Mayb i try put 1 pc of square anti -slip mat inside for them to stand on it when they are not moving ard,shd b ok rite??i saw ppl dng tat.

[jenniferwlp]

thks prodigy..:)

[Jace Lau]

U can try but hor, hopefully u pig won't chew on it.. additional latex treats for them. :D